The best online Debate website - DebateIsland.com! The only Online Debate Website with Casual, Persuade Me, Formalish, and Formal Online Debate formats. We’re the Leading Online Debate website. Debate popular topics, Debate news, or Debate anything! Debate online for free! The Self-Contradictory Nature of Both the Left and Rightin Politics

xMathFanx

The Self-Contradictory Nature of Both the Left and Right

A huge problem with the typical talk surrounding the Left-Right dynamic is that the many of the positions/views on both sides are self-contradictory and often highly out of step with theory.

A few examples I have previously given about this from the Left are "The Crisis of Democracy", Plato's "Republic", champions of free speech while perpetrating student "protests" designed to shut-down Free Speech, champions of Science while promoting 63+ genders pseudo-science, champions of anti-discrimination/anti-prejudice while simultaneously promoting positions and values that inherently are discriminatory (e.g. Affirmative Action, new laws/rules M-F dynamics in rape/sexual assault and elsewhere, ect.) ect. ect.

From the Right, there are also a plethora of self-contradictory positions such as Small Government but massive military with a global presence, Nationalism and sovereignty are of chief importance but we should perpetually interfere with the affairs of other Nations, Lazefaire Capitalism in theory should reign supreme however promote all sorts of Mixed Economy positions, "Family values" are most important but most parents are encouraged to physically, emotionally, psychologically, educationally, ect. abuse their children, ect. ect.

Links to discussion concerning "The Crisis of Democracy", Plato's "Republic" here:

(A) Crisis of Democracy | CreateDebate
(B) Fascism is Good (Please read my argument) | CreateDebate (Look for my posts in the discussion)
(C) Plato's Republic is the Ideally Just Society | CreateDebate

Thoughts?

Grenache

I doesn't seem to me to be an issue of consistency (whether self contradictory or fully consistent).  It's instead an issue with using just the one paradigm to assess and judge and act upon the world.  Reality proves itself all the time to be complicated, blended, balanced and then imbalanced, and understanding that as well as acting to improve upon it really cannot be successfully achieved by wearing the blinders of one paradigm.

Oakchairbc

1) Free speech does not entail forcing others to be a platform for your hate speech.
2) The science on gender and trans people is a bit limited though you clearly know nothing about it so I’ll give you the basics.
Certain areas of the brain are associated with sex with each sex having certain characteristics. Transgender people have brains that are more similar to the other sex. The same is true for various sexual hormones. Also just so you know there are people born with both a penis and a vagina. There are people whose chromosomes do not fit the standard.
3) Discrimination is real it impacts everyone. All affirmative action does is correct this injustice. The position of,”we can’t correct racism because it is racist to help only minorities.” To oppose affirmative action is about as intelligent as Trump. If you had bothered to do any research on affirmative action— like a responsible citizen would— you would of found that minorities that are aided by the policy perform just as well as their counterparts. The major differences between the two is that the minorities did more community service and chose harder degrees.

And you say most conservatives encourage child abuse. I get it now.. your post isn’t about reality, morals, or logic it’s just trolling.

joecavalry

Both republicans are self-contradictory. Some things that they may not line up with their beliefs or values. 

xMathFanx

Oakchairbc said:

1) Free speech does not entail forcing others to be a platform for your hate speech.
2) The science on gender and trans people is a bit limited though you clearly know nothing about it so I’ll give you the basics.
Certain areas of the brain are associated with sex with each sex having certain characteristics. Transgender people have brains that are more similar to the other sex. The same is true for various sexual hormones. Also just so you know there are people born with both a penis and a vagina. There are people whose chromosomes do not fit the standard.
3) Discrimination is real it impacts everyone. All affirmative action does is correct this injustice. The position of,”we can’t correct racism because it is racist to help only minorities.” To oppose affirmative action is about as intelligent as Trump. If you had bothered to do any research on affirmative action— like a responsible citizen would— you would of found that minorities that are aided by the policy perform just as well as their counterparts. The major differences between the two is that the minorities did more community service and chose harder degrees.

And you say most conservatives encourage child abuse. I get it now.. your post isn’t about reality, morals, or logic it’s just trolling.

@Oakchairbc

The first three bullet points of your "arguments" simply helped bolster my points (as we saw the type of cognitive dissonance I was referring to come out full force in your post).

As for your last point, Conservatives tend to encourage physically harming their children as they are in favor of Corporal Punishment (to varying degrees) as well as indoctrinating their children into the Mammal Snow Globe World (that I have discussed elsewhere on DebateIsland) while the Left (mostly) views this as gross levels of Child Abuse (which it is)

Mike

The subtleties concerning the “Self-Contradictory Nature of Both the Left and Right” is an important boundary relative to the extreme “Nature” of those on the “Left and Right” in the evolution of society.

In general, the mechanics of evolution depends on dynamic channels of resistance and freedom. If one was to study the history of our two Party system in the US, one will find the roots of one Party to be the Party of resistance (aka, slavery, tyranny), where the other Party is the Party of freedom (aka liberty).

Over time and in a large part, freedom became a function of money according to Nobel laureate Friedrich Hayek where he stated, “Money is one of the greatest instruments of freedom ever invented by man.” That is, the more money one has, the more freedom there is to do and buy things, etc., because nearly most of our actions come at a cost.  

Back to those dynamic channels of resistance and freedom. One Party embraces higher taxes, the other supports lower taxes. One embraces controlled markets, the other supports free markets. One embraces bigger government, the other supports smaller government.

These two Parties are important for social evolution where the “Contradictory Nature” between liberty and tyranny is the boundary striving for social harmony.

Ampersand

This doesn't seem to be contradictory so much as you having an overly superficial understanding of the subject matter.

Champions of free speech while perpetrating student "protests" designed to shut-down Free Speech - A right to free speech doesn't mean with agreeing with what people say and protesting is a form of free speech itself

Champions of Science while promoting 63+ genders pseudo-science - Gender refers to the cultural construct of gender rather than biology. there is no reason cultures cannot have multiple genders. Your mistake.

Champions of anti-discrimination/anti-prejudice while simultaneously promoting positions and values that inherently are discriminatory (e.g. Affirmative Action, new laws/rules M-F dynamics in rape/sexual assault and elsewhere, ect.) ect. ect. - I'm not even sure how "new laws/rules M-F dynamics in rape/sexual assault" is meant to be discriminatory. With affirmative action, it tdepends how you qualify discrimination. If you view it as the net change from where someone would be if there was no discrimination then it's fine.

There are also a plethora of self-contradictory positions such as Small Government but massive military with a global presence - You can have a larger military and and overall smaller government

Nationalism and sovereignty are of chief importance but we should perpetually interfere with the affairs of other Nations - Only if they espouse all Nations rights. if they only care abotu their own it may be selfish but it isn't contradictory.

Lazefaire Capitalism in theory should reign supreme however promote all sorts of Mixed Economy positions - Right wing doesn't mean "economically libetarian to the extreme" so no contradiction

 "Family values" are most important but most parents are encouraged to physically, emotionally, psychologically, educationally, ect. abuse their children, ect. ect.  - Examples of what you're talking about?

MayCaesar

"Left" and "right" are very broad category, and there are few people having purely left or purely right views. Both major parties in the US have mixed views, and while GOP tends to be more on the right and DNC tends to be more on the left, there is a lot of each in both of these problems.

I am about as far to the right as one can get, and I completely reject federalism, nationalism and isolationism. My position is advocacy for extreme individual freedoms, where the government serves no purpose but to guarantee fundamental individual rights of every citizen. I do not think there are many contradictions to my position, although arguably it is extreme enough as to be somewhat impractical and idealistic.

You also have people who are extremely to the left, those who reject any individual values and see a person as an inherent part of the bigger whole. Such people will reject any degree of individual interest in favor of the collective good. Again, their position is not self-contradictory, albeit extremely totalitarian.

Finally, you also have joke positions of people who have not thought their views through and just repeat whatever they heard from those they respect. People like Donald Trump or Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez flip their stances every day and can never provide a coherent argument in their support. Those people are neither left nor right; they are simply shallow.

As such, when talking about contradictions, you have to first specify what category of people you are talking about. DNC and GOP have a lot of contradictions in their platforms, when they claim to advocate for a bigger principle, and yet do not shy away from making exceptions from it whenever convenient. And that is probably the nature of political party in general: as power structure, they are more concerned with self-preservation and multiplication of their powers, than with higher ideals. In order to find self-consistent positions, you have to look at the specific individuals and small groups, not at structures encompassing dozens millions people.

YeshuaRedeemed

The owner of createdebate.com is just a glorified misogynist troll who allowed Atrag to sexually harass and slander me. You have been muted.

YeshuaRedeemed

@MayCaesar As a moderate, I agree.